Brexit Delay

[Lianachan]

Thank TFSM for that, I was beginning to think I needed to work on my act.

[Arneb]

No no, in fact it was great. I read it and snickered, but was too sluggish to heap praise on you.

[Lance]

No no, in fact it was great. I read it and snickered, but was too sluggish to heap praise on you.

^ this ^

[Heid the Ba]

It's all kicking off in Westminster over the nature of government. The Tories say they control what Parliament debates and votes on, even as a minority. The Speaker says "Fuck that noise everyone gets a say". By doing so he is going against precedent and possibly the advice of civil servants.

[Lance]

"Fuck that noise everyone gets a say".

But this is good, right?

[Arneb]

Indeed. Not the worst thing if the Brexit train wreck is a moment where Parliament stands up for its rights.

OTOH, I do think things will get ugly if that compromise is rejected.

[Мастер]

At Heathrow now. Talk about “Brexit Delay”

[Heid the Ba]

Be careful out there among the English.

[Мастер]

Be careful out there among the English.

Well, I was leaving the English at the time.

I did, on my travels, learn about the phenomenon of “detox water”, available at a breakfast buffet. It seems it is water with impurities added.

[Arneb]

For a concise summary of the current fuckup, google "Brexit yellow jacket woman". One could hardly put it more succinctly.

[Arneb]

Just watched a bit of the Great Debate before this night's vote on the Brexit deal. Backbenchers geiving 3 min adresses before a mor than half-empty House. After all the loud words we hear across the Channel, it was somewhat reassuring to hear both sides of the aisle talking sensibly, respectfully, and with a sense of urgency. As every sensible voice is a slap in the face of Johnson as well Corbyn, it's a shame they aren't in there to pick up the slaps, as they should.

All MPs I heard, from DUP to Labour, were against the deal, unsurprisingly.

[Мастер]

I saw a news article, which said the vote had been delayed again. Then I realised it said the vote had been delayed until February 30th.

[Arneb]

The Ayes to tve right, 202. The Nos to the left, 432. So the Nos have it. Order. Ooordeer!

The biggest defeat by a governement in the Commons, ever, if I take it correctly.

Wow.

[Arneb]

And a no confidence motion brought by Labour. You live in tough times.

[Heid the Ba]

Aye it just depends on how fucking awful Labour MPs decide to be.

[Lianachan]

If there’s a general election, how are the poor English (and some Scottish idiots) voters supposed to choose between a disasterous Tory Brexit and a disasterous Labour Brexit? And is there any point?

[Lianachan]

UK heading towards this.

[Richard A]

If there’s a general election, how are the poor English (and some Scottish idiots) voters supposed to choose between a disasterous Tory Brexit and a disasterous Labour Brexit? And is there any point?

Well, Lianachan, the Labour Brexit won't be quite as disastrous - although still disastrous compared to staying in the EU. They want to stay in the customs union - what the EU say will do as a backstop to prevent a hard Irish border, Labour want to be permanent (so presumably the EU can agree to that). They want "strong ties to" the single market - and in marked contrast to Theresa May understand that free movement is the price they'd have to pay for it. Again, the EU would probably agree to that. The Tories would sooner see a no deal exit than either of those. And they want a continuation of the EU provisions on labour rights - so I can see them agreeing that the ECJ rules on those. Again, I can't see the EU having a problem with that.

Of course, it's all fantasyland as sadly there's very unlikely to be an election before 29 March.

[Richard A]

On Monday, Theresa May is obliged to tell Parliament her Plan B. She could of course say, "my plan B is to get the idiots who opposed me last week to see sense and back my plan A". As it currently looks, she might well say exactly that. The question then will be: will the plan for Parliament to take back control (from the woman who was so determined that it should regain its sovereignty) actually translate from theory into practice? And if it does, what then? Can it avoid the clock just running down as Rees-Mogg, B. Johnson, Leadsom et al rub their hands?

[g-one]

Is the idea of another referendum at all realistic or just a pipe-dream? I'm not all that familiar with what would be involved.
Although a bit morbid, these numbers are interesting:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/fi ... 41576.html

[Lianachan]

On Monday, Theresa May is obliged to tell Parliament her Plan B. She could of course say, "my plan B is to get the idiots who opposed me last week to see sense and back my plan A". As it currently looks, she might well say exactly that. The question then will be: will the plan for Parliament to take back control (from the woman who was so determined that it should regain its sovereignty) actually translate from theory into practice? And if it does, what then? Can it avoid the clock just running down as Rees-Mogg, B. Johnson, Leadsom et al rub their hands?

Plan A? Who is Plan A? My name is Plan B.

[Lianachan]

If there’s a general election, how are the poor English (and some Scottish idiots) voters supposed to choose between a disasterous Tory Brexit and a disasterous Labour Brexit? And is there any point?

Well, Lianachan, the Labour Brexit won't be quite as disastrous - although still disastrous compared to staying in the EU. They want to stay in the customs union - what the EU say will do as a backstop to prevent a hard Irish border, Labour want to be permanent (so presumably the EU can agree to that). They want "strong ties to" the single market - and in marked contrast to Theresa May understand that free movement is the price they'd have to pay for it. Again, the EU would probably agree to that. The Tories would sooner see a no deal exit than either of those. And they want a continuation of the EU provisions on labour rights - so I can see them agreeing that the ECJ rules on those. Again, I can't see the EU having a problem with that.

Of course, it's all fantasyland as sadly there's very unlikely to be an election before 29 March.

Jeremy Corbyn couldn’t negoitiate a discount on a DFS sofa. I’ll take independence, thanks!

[Arneb]

Just listening to the House of Commons Which Plan B? debate. Honestly, your Parliament could do a lot worse than this.

[Arneb]

Good debate, as I said, but the vote results are a complete riddle to me. So the Commons say, we don't want No Deal, neither we do we want Backstop, and will the Prime Minister please move her lovely ass to Brussels to kill an agreement she herself worked two years to get, with "red Lines" drawn by the UK as well as the EU already forbiddding any compromise other than the one voted down by a two -thirds majority barely two weeks ago. Oh, and by the way, if you get no deal in two weeks, than No Deal it is. Because while we don't want No Deal, neither will we make any concessions to actually get a deal"

Boris said, oh they'll come over all right. After all they don't want a hard border in Ireland or hurt their Irish Republic, do they. This does sound like "fuck you, we're the Empire, and you follow our orders or else". But it does not sound like a plan. Of course, the head of the SNP was duly shouted down when he said that this vote drove a peg through the Good Friday Agreement. What was he thinking?

Am I getting this wrong or what?

ETA Corrected my shitty grammar

[Heid the Ba]

You have it pretty much spot on. We are no closer to a deal than we were two weeks ago, or indeed two years ago.