Who Are We?

Is it okay to kill in the name of God? Can ethics, morals and technology peacefully co-exist?

What is your stance on religion?

I do not believe in the existence of any deity(ies)
6
75%
I don't know - I am open to the possibility
1
13%
I am spiritual but not religious
0
No votes
Religious - Casual (I have faith but not zealous about it)
0
No votes
Religious - Strict (I am a strong believer in my faith)
1
13%
 
Total votes : 8

Who Are We?

Postby Lance » Sun May 08, 2016 7:51 pm

I think we all have a pretty good idea where we stand but we've never really quantified it.

So I ask, out of curiosity mainly, who are the members of IRU?

And for the last two options, I mean any religion. Hindu, Pagan, Asatru, Zoroastrianism, Unification Church, etc.
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Re: Who Are We?

Postby Enzo » Sun May 08, 2016 8:58 pm

You left out the one they always leave out, between Atheist and agnostic.

Atheists proclaim THERE IS NO GOD. The proselytize their non-belief.

The agnostics are unsure.

I have no belief in a god or any other spooks, but I am not strident about it, I don't feel the need to defend my position, etc.

I think even atheist have an image of god. Just as we have an image of Santa Claus or Easter bunny. You don;t have to believe to have an image. SO in my mind if there were a god, it would be like the lab researcher and his petri dish full of bacteria. He might be concerned for the well being of his bacteria, but the idea he has a deep and clear relationship with each bacterium is ludicrous. Or maybe like the ending scene of Men In Black, where the view pans back from the earth, the sun, the solar system, the galaxy, the galaxies around us, the whole damned universe, only to find it is a marble for some huge other dimensional being to play with. SO with a god like that, I'd find it meaningless to think it mattered whether there was one or not.

Somehow that doesn't seem to make me what I think of when the term agnostic is used. You tell me.
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Re: Who Are We?

Postby Lance » Sun May 08, 2016 9:11 pm

Okay, I see your point. I'm not really trying to label us, just understand the group better.

For my understanding, while I agree with everything you said, I think "Agnostic" works. I would broaden the definition to include your view.
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Re: Who Are We?

Postby Enzo » Sun May 08, 2016 9:14 pm

OK, then I will vote that.

Maybe I make too fine a philosophical point.

I mean if someone actually came up with incontrovertible evidence for a god, I'd have to reconsider my stance. But I won;t hold my breath until then. You'd think in a 7000 year old universe, someone would have done so already...
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Re: Who Are We?

Postby Lance » Sun May 08, 2016 9:17 pm

lol, exactly...

If the clouds suddenly parted, the trumpets blared and the "God of Abraham" appeared and proclaimed himself, we probably wouldn't ask for ID.

But I doubt it will be happening any time soon.
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Re: Who Are We?

Postby tubeswell » Mon May 09, 2016 4:37 am

... We are Devo
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Re: Who Are We?

Postby Lianachan » Mon May 09, 2016 8:14 am

"Active disbelief" doesn't quite cut it for me either, as I base my views on the lack of evidence rather than on belief of any kind. But I'm not agnostic either, because I'm not waiting for evidence before I make up my mind.
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Re: Who Are We?

Postby Heid the Ba » Mon May 09, 2016 8:16 am

tubeswell wrote:... We are Devo

Are we not men?

Top of the range cynic, but I'm like that about most things.
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Re: Who Are We?

Postby Halcyon Dayz, FCD » Mon May 09, 2016 12:09 pm

Enzo wrote:Atheists proclaim THERE IS NO GOD. They proselytize their non-belief.

That is a misconception.

The terms atheist and agnostic are answers to different questions.
Atheist means "without god", i.e. a person who would answer the question "Do you believe in any gods?" with "No."
Agnostic means "without knowledge", i.e. person who won't answer the question "Do you believe it is possible to know if any gods exist?" with "Yes."

Seems you're an agnostic atheist, just like me.
Most atheists are, and they usually don't make a fuss about it. (At least in countries that are actually secular.)

Hard atheism, or gnostic atheism ("There are no gods!"), makes only sense in regard to specific proposed gods, a god with well defined attributes.
Frex the attribute of omnipotence, which leads to paradox ("Can god create a stone to heavy for her to lift?"), and can be dismissed as logically impossible.
When someone says "I don't believe in God." they usually mean the proposed god that is dominant in their culture. The one they might actually have put some thought into. In the West that would be a Triple-O god, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent all at the same time.
The question "Do you believe in the Mighty Thor, God of Thunder" simply never came up.

Since there are an infinite number of imaginable and unimaginable god proposals, and most of them are to ill-defined to even reason about ("God is love!", what does that even mean?), trying to dismiss all of them is a hopeless exercise.
Which is of course why the burden of prove, as always, lies with the claimant.
Not believing in wild claims for which there isn't any evidence worth mentioning is the only rational position.

Luckily there are religious people rational and honest enough to admit that their believe is not rational, they'd be agnostic theists, they believe something they are well aware they can't prove.

Anyhoo, most people who aren't Hindu disbelieve in almost every god ever imagined. For some reason they can't take that final logical step and apply the same reasoning they used to dismiss all those gods to the last one left.
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Re: Who Are We?

Postby Lance » Mon May 09, 2016 4:11 pm

Okay, based on Halcyon Dayz's and other comments I've edited the options. I removed the labels and hopefully made the descriptions fit better.

You can change your vote if it no longer fits.
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Re: Who Are We?

Postby tubeswell » Mon May 09, 2016 4:48 pm

So who's the pastafarian (out of curiosity)?
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Re: Who Are We?

Postby Lance » Mon May 09, 2016 5:06 pm

tubeswell wrote:So who's the pastafarian (out of curiosity)?

I'm pretty sure one of our members holds strong Christian beliefs. The poll is anonymous so let's not call anyone out that doesn't care to explain their position.
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Re: Who Are We?

Postby tubeswell » Tue May 10, 2016 12:53 am

My bad - I assumed the FSM had more influence than it did.
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Re: Who Are We?

Postby Lance » Tue May 10, 2016 2:06 am

Though maybe I should change my vote... May you be touched by HIS noodly appendage.
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Re: Who Are We?

Postby tubeswell » Tue May 10, 2016 4:57 am

Free free to change your selection. It takes all kinds of minorities to make the world go around.
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Re: Who Are We?

Postby Heid the Ba » Tue May 10, 2016 10:36 am

Lance wrote:Though maybe I should change my vote... May you be touched by HIS noodly appendage.

Die heretic!
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Re: Who Are We?

Postby Arneb » Wed May 11, 2016 7:07 am

I finally cast my vote, for option 1.

This subject has kept my mind busy since I was around 16. For me, believing is not to think that something is true (regardless of level of evidence) - it is, to quote a gret German physicist and philospher, to live the way you have to live IF what you believe in is true. In other words, believing is to put your money where your mouth is. In that sense, we all "believe" in quantum theory every time we switch on the PC and in general relativity every time we use GPS. And in that sense, I don't believe in God simply because I don't live with one.

As a very German phenomenon, that does not keep me from bein a member of the Protestant church, working in a Protestant (and formerly, a Catholic) hospital, visiting a service every now and then, and sending my children to a Protestant kindergarten. You can live that way in Germany, because memebership in the church is simply a matter of paying your taxes, not of active membership in a specific community. I do that because I think that the truths of the New Testament are deeper and truer than even Christianity trusts them to be.
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Re: Who Are We?

Postby tubeswell » Wed May 11, 2016 9:40 am

^more proof that I am not in a minority in this intimate community^
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Re: Who Are We?

Postby MM_Dandy » Wed May 11, 2016 7:58 pm

Lance wrote:
tubeswell wrote:So who's the pastafarian (out of curiosity)?

I'm pretty sure one of our members holds strong Christian beliefs. The poll is anonymous so let's not call anyone out that doesn't care to explain their position.

That would be me. At least, I feel that that is the closest any of the options comes to representing me, anyway. For what it's worth, I currently identify as Roman Catholic, although I am not fully in agreement with their dogma. I just assumed everyone here had already come across my thoughts on the subject at one time or another.

So, in order to clarify things a bit:
Do I believe that long-persisting contrails are actually toxic chemical mists applied by mysterious, nefarious forces for mysterious, nefarious purposes? No.
Do I believe that there is a magical, supreme being which caused the universe to be and has the power to decide the fate of my immortal soul? Yes.

I blame Obama. ;)
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Re: Who Are We?

Postby Lance » Wed May 11, 2016 8:32 pm

MM_Dandy wrote:So, in order to clarify things a bit:
Do I believe that long-persisting contrails are actually toxic chemical mists applied by mysterious, nefarious forces for mysterious, nefarious purposes? No.

Okay, so you DON'T believe in that which DOES exist;
MM_Dandy wrote:Do I believe that there is a magical, supreme being which caused the universe to be and has the power to decide the fate of my immortal soul? Yes.

But DO believe in that which DOESN'T?

No, I'm just kidding...

But let me ask you; would you be interested in trying to tackle some of the questions of logic some of us have? It seems difficult to try to find answers to some of these questions without someone getting offended. I wonder if we might be able to do it here without a conversation getting contentious.

But I do understand completely if you think it's better avoided...
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Re: Who Are We?

Postby MM_Dandy » Mon May 16, 2016 4:46 pm

Sure, fire away.
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Re: Who Are We?

Postby Lance » Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:51 pm

Lance wrote:But let me ask you; would you be interested in trying to tackle some of the questions of logic some of us have? It seems difficult to try to find answers to some of these questions without someone getting offended.

MM_Dandy wrote:Sure, fire away.

Based on this, I have created a new thread here.
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