Map of Freedom 2008

[Мастер]

See if your country made the cut.

http://www.freedomhouse.org/uploads/fiw ... of2008.pdf

[Heid the Ba]

My country isn't a country . . .

[troubleagain]

'Sokay, Heid. You're green, anyway.

[Halcyon Dayz, FCD]

My country isn't a country . . .

Yes, it is!

Screw Freedom House. What do they know. :wink:

[pmcolt]

Hmm. Serbia is free. Kosovo isn't.

What does Freedom House know, anyway? Here are my criteria for freedom:

1) Could I publicly say something unflattering about the current leadership, and not expect to have my door kicked down in the middle of the night?
2) Could I cast my ballot for the 'wrong' candidate, and still expect my vote to be counted?
3) Could I carry a sidearm holstered on my belt in public, and not expect to be arrested or hassled?
4) Could I worship FSM freely and openly, march in a Try-sexual Pride Parade, and smoke a box of Cuban cigars if I choose to do so, and not be persecuted for it?

{edit: me not grammar good}

[troubleagain]

My country isn't a country . . .

Don't MAKE us come over there and liberate you., :wink:

[Мастер]

My country isn't a country . . .

Don't MAKE us come over there and liberate you., :wink:

Is there much support in England for independence from the Scottish yoke?

[Enzo]

I though yokes came from funny Swedes...

[KLA2]

I though yokes came from funny Swedes...

Nah, that is Yakoff Smirnoff.

"In Russia, yolk is on your facing firing squad ..."

[KLA2]

Hmm. Serbia is free. Kosovo isn't.

What does Freedom House know, anyway? Here are my criteria for freedom:

1) Could I publicly say something unflattering about the current leadership, and not expect to have my door kicked down in the middle of the night?
2) Could I cast my ballot for the 'wrong' candidate, and still expect my vote to be counted?
3) Could I carry a sidearm holstered on my belt in public, and not expect to be arrested or hassled?
4) Could I worship FSM freely and openly, march in a Try-sexual Pride Parade, and smoke a box of Cuban cigars if I choose to do so, and not be persecuted for it?

{edit: me not grammar good}

3) Could I carry a sidearm holstered on my belt in public, and not expect to be arrested or hassled?

Not in Canada!

smoke a box of Cuban cigars if I choose to do so, and not be persecuted for it?

Not in Canada ... at least, in any restaurant or public building, or place where others might breathe.

The rest ... Canada is cool with it.

[Мастер]

smoke a box of Cuban cigars if I choose to do so, and not be persecuted for it?

Not in Canada ... at least, in any restaurant or public building, or place where others might breathe.

The rest ... Canada is cool with it.

So is the United States, it's just a little tricky to come by them.

[Arneb]

Same two objections in Germany, although the Cuban cigars are O.K. on public land, your or anyone else's private home and even in some roofed public places (the restriction is on them not for being Cuban but for being fermented plant parts emitting noxious gases and aerosols when burned). If you ever come over here, let's have one together.

I am fine with the sidearm restriction. But you can glean that from my Modified Rank Title (T.M.), so it's not really news.

[Мастер]

Looks like everyone here lives in a country that made the cut, assuming I've got everyone's country of residence straight. Since Scotland is the dominant partner in the UK, I am using the UK score as a substitute for Scotland's. Furthermore, if one looks at the individual country reports, these countries all made top marks in both categories, "Political Rights" and "Civil Liberties."

[Heid the Ba]

Hey, why am I not a euroweasel too? My title of choice would be: "Tree hugging, veggie, sandal wearing, pinko euroweasel" but I defer to the moderators' decision.

[KLA2]

^ Be careful what you wish for ...

[Arneb]

I think it's an excellent choice. I miss the tree-hugging bit, though.

[Heid the Ba]

Thanks guys!

KOS, sorry I missed the earlier post about English independence; they just moan a lot about how much better we have it them, which they think they pay for, and how scots run their country. They won't do anything about it though.

[troubleagain]

I'd much rather be an ermine than a weasel. That pretty white coat....

Anyhoo, not to get yelled at by Llance.....who all participates in the embargo against Cuba?

[Halcyon Dayz, FCD]

It's just the US.

United States embargo against Cuba.

[Мастер]

It's just the US.

United States embargo against Cuba.

The link HD provides talks about US attempts in the 1990s to get the rest of the world to join in.

The 1963 U.S. embargo was reinforced in October 1992 by the Cuban Democracy Act (the "Torricelli Law") and in 1996 by the Cuban Liberty and Democracy Solidarity Act (known as the Helms-Burton Act) which penalises foreign companies that do business in Cuba by preventing them from doing business in the US.

Then the article has this:

Furthermore, the European Parliament in 1996 passed a law making it illegal for EU citizens to obey the Helms-Burton act.

Hmm, that doesn't seem right. What exactly does this mean? Most EU citizens probably have no business dealings with Cuba or the US, and are therefore compliant with the US law. Halcyon Dayz, are you in violation of EU law by not doing business in Cuba? :P

A more cynical person than myself might actually suspect that some support for the embargo from the sugar industry might actually be motivated by a desire to keep competition out of their industry. I know, I'm awful for even suggesting such a thing...

[Halcyon Dayz, FCD]

Then the article has this:

Furthermore, the European Parliament in 1996 passed a law making it illegal for EU citizens to obey the Helms-Burton act.

Hmm, that doesn't seem right. What exactly does this mean? Most EU citizens probably have no business dealings with Cuba or the US, and are therefore compliant with the US law. Halcyon Dayz, are you in violation of EU law by not doing business in Cuba? :P

Sounds like a typical Wiki cock-up.

Council Regulation (EC) No 2271/96 of 22 November 1996 protecting against the effects of the extra-territorial application of legislation adopted by a third country, and actions based thereon or resulting therefrom
Article 5 : No person referred to in Article 11 shall comply, whether directly or through a subsidiary or other intermediary person, actively or by deliberate omission, with any requirement or prohibition, including requests of foreign courts, based on or resulting, directly or indirectly, from the laws specified in the Annex or from actions based thereon or resulting therefrom.

Don't you just love Eurocratese. You tell me what it means.
The keywords seems to be comply, actively and deliberate.

So I guess I'm not in violation here.
But since there are about a brazilion of these things I'm no doubt doing something wrong. :wink:

This dispute went on for two years. The EU really hated this infringement of there citizens right to trade freely.
(Actual investments in Cuba by EU persons was only about 5 billion at the time, so it was clearly a principal matter.)
They threatened to bring formal complains with GATT and WTO.
In the end certain provisions of the Helms-Burton Act were suspended.
At the time it was believed to be the all time low in post-war US/European relations.

BTW: Did I mention that just I love the Internet. In the olden days I would have had to go to a law library (a really, really big one), and spend the better part of a day to find that text, if I could find it at all.

A more cynical person than myself might actually suspect that some support for the embargo from the sugar industry might actually be motivated by a desire to keep competition out of their industry. I know, I'm awful for even suggesting such a thing...

You have a suspicious mind.

You might also have noticed that the president didn't veto the bill, although he had publicly spoken out against it.

Guess every year is an election year.

[Мастер]

Don't you just love Eurocratese. You tell me what it means.

I'm not sure that I can...

So it sounds like one of those things that depends on intent. You can't suspend your business in Cuba because the Americans want you to, but you can suspend it for any other reason. Doesn't sound like a very workable piece of legislation....

At the time it was believed to be the all time low in post-war US/European relations.

But is now referred to as "the good old days" :P

A more cynical person than myself might actually suspect that some support for the embargo from the sugar industry might actually be motivated by a desire to keep competition out of their industry. I know, I'm awful for even suggesting such a thing...

You have a suspicious mind.

You might also have noticed that the president didn't veto the bill, although he had publicly spoken out against it.

Guess every year is an election year.

I'm predicting status quo for US policy on Cuba until at least 2013. A second-term president could make a major change without fear, and there is one of those in office right now, but I don't think he'll do much...

ETA - the last part is barring any major changes in Cuba itself.

[Enzo]

But isn't the world scheduled to end in 2012? Pretty convenient that prediction KOS.

Ever since that whole Batista thing, I have not done any business with Cuba.


Oh good lord...

I couldn't remember Fulgencio as Batista's first name, so I googled him up. There is apparently now a professional wrestler character named Batista. I was lucky to actually FIND the real one.



No wonder they kicked him out of CUba.

[Мастер]

But isn't the world scheduled to end in 2012? Pretty convenient that prediction KOS.

Now that you mention it, I am finding the prediction most inconvenient. With the world ending in 2012, we'll only know whether the prediction was right or not if it turns out to be wrong...