Lakota Declared Independence?

[Dragon Star]

Link

A delegation claiming to represent the Lakota Indian Tribe, an Indian nation within United States borders, have signed a document stating that the tribe withdraws and or cancels all treaties with the U.S. and formally establishes independence from the country. The letter was hand delivered by activists for the tribe to Deputy to the Public Liaison at the State Department, Daniel Turner.

"We are no longer citizens of the United States of America and all those who live in the five-state area that encompasses our country are free to join us. This is according to the laws of the United States, specifically article six of the constitution. It is also within the laws on treaties passed at the Vienna Convention and put into effect by the US and the rest of the international community in 1980. We are legally within our rights to be free and independent," said Russell Means, an activist for Native American rights to reporters at a press conference on Wednesday in Washington, D.C..

"Today is a historic day and our forefathers speak through us. Our Forefathers made the treaties in good faith with the sacred Canupa and with the knowledge of the Great Spirit. They never honored the treaties, that's the reason we are here today," said Garry Rowland who is also known as Wounded Knee.

Thoughts?

[pmcolt]

There was a big war over this sort of thing about a hundred and fifty years ago. Eleven states decided to secede from the Union. Lots of people died. In the end, the rebelling states were conquered, subjugated, and forced to rewrite their constitutions and reenter the Union. Today, states (or my state, at least) have no power to secede.

If a sovereign state and recognized political entity cannot secede from the US, under threat of force of arms, then I see no reason why a separatist group which appears not to represent any organized and official Lakota nation would have any better luck.

This will probably be treated as a tax revolt or internal criminal matter. It might end like the Browns in Plainsfield, NH, or it might end like Koresh and Waco, TX, but it won't end with an independent Lakota nation.


Also, WTF?

"We are no longer citizens of the United States of America and all those who live in the five-state area that encompasses our country are free to join us. This is according to the laws of the United States, specifically article six of the constitution.

All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

[Enzo]

Pointless exercise, whoever they were.

You and I could pitch a tent and call ourselves Dragozonia, but that don't make it so.

Damn few treaties the US has ever signed with the Native Americans, that it didn't break the first time it made anything the slightest bit inconvenient for us.

Here in Michigan we have a large and active native population. I know a number of them. We as a state grant them their reservation as their sovereign land and they can do what they like with it, but as soon as they thought up casinos, the state saw them making money and instantly said, "Whoa, we gotta start taxing all that.

So much for your land, do what you want on it.

Of course, when we want something... Wouldn't it be great to have a casino right here? FIne, we declare this square block to be Indian land.

[MM_Dandy]

As far as I know, Mr. Means and the AIM have no authority granted to them by the Lakota. As Enzo analogized, it's a little like me and my friends from the Eastern South Dakota Liberation Organization (ESDLO) declaring that Eastern South Dakota will secede from the United States. It's meaningless.

The only good it does is give the ESDLO and me some press.

It's hard to take them seriously. While they've said that they would issue passports, etc. - they've conveniently left out the how. The infrastructure on the reservations is abysmal. What resources they have are the casinos, and once they close the borders they will take a significant hit. They have a few dozen tiny municipal airports at most and are landlocked. The only way they could import/export any significant amount of goods is over land - through U.S. territory. The local governments are not trusted by the constituents and accusations of corruption abound. While the same might be said about the US government, a large enough percentage of the Lakota population is volatile enough to destabilize and render ineffectual any local governing body if they wanted to (some would argue that they are not that effectual as things stand). The best thing that they've got going for them is that conditions are poor enough that people won't notice the difference in many places.

The point is, even an independent Lakota Nation would have to have a lot of outside help and an enormous amount of sustained cooperation from the US.

[KLA2]

How we do things in Canada.

The 1995 Quebec referendum was the second referendum to ask voters in the Canadian province of Quebec whether Quebec should secede from Canada and become an independent state.

The 1995 referendum differed from the first referendum on Quebec's sovereignty in that the 1980 question proposed to negotiate "sovereignty-association" with the Canadian government, while the 1995 question proposed "sovereignty", along with an optional partnership offer to the rest of Canada.

The referendum took place in Quebec on October 30, 1995, and the motion to decide whether Quebec should secede from Canada was defeated by an extremely small margin: 50.58% "No" to 49.42% "Yes".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Quebe ... eralists_2

A vote of 50% +1 was all that was needed for succession. What would have happened then is an interesting question. :?

The Separatist party of Quebec has vowed to keep holding referendums until they "succeed".

We also have numerous First Nations issues. :(

[Мастер]

As far as I know, Mr. Means and the AIM have no authority granted to them by the Lakota. As Enzo analogized, it's a little like me and my friends from the Eastern South Dakota Liberation Organization (ESDLO) declaring that Eastern South Dakota will secede from the United States. It's meaningless.

It's only meaningful if they can enforce whatever rights they claim in their declaration. If they can - well, I think the United States was formed by a procedure not very different :P

[Halcyon Dayz, FCD]

Reminds me of this one.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conch_republic

[troubleagain]

Vive le Conch Republic!

[MM_Dandy]

It's only meaningful if they can enforce whatever rights they claim in their declaration. If they can - well, I think the United States was formed by a procedure not very different :P

Good point. While the signers of the Declaration were appointed representatives of their respective colonies, if they did not actually have support from a substantial number of the public, they would not have been able to enforce it.

So, I amend my statement to say that they cannot enforce it because they do not have enough support from the Lakota public to do so, as well as not having enough resources, etc.

[Bill_Thompson]

Thoughts?

Let's all join them....
Then they will include all Americans....
Then there is no split from the Union.

[KLA2]

^

You ought to use wit more often, Bill.

[Bill_Thompson]

^

You ought to use wit more often, Bill.

Read more of my posts in other catagories.

[Enzo]

He did, hence his post.

[Bill_Thompson]

He did, hence his post.

I doubt it:
http://www.illuminati-r-us.com/Forums/v ... php?t=3624

[troubleagain]

I saw that post, but couldn't get the link to load. I laughed at the thread title, but didn't post, because I was going to try the link again later.