Should it be legal to run over peaceniks?

[Bill_Thompson]

In Olympia, Washington, some peaceniks have tried to block the military sending supplies to Iraq.

Since even by the most liberal-biased media now, it is clear that the troop surge has contributed to more peace and stability, shouldn't it be legal now for the US military to simply run over peaceniks?

[Heid the Ba]

Or at least pay Blackwater to do it for them.

[KLA2]

In Olympia, Washington, some peaceniks have tried to block the military sending supplies to Iraq.

Since even by the most liberal-biased media now, it is clear that the troop surge has contributed to more peace and stability, shouldn't it be legal now for the US military to simply run over peaceniks?

Then it would no longer be America, and would be indistinguishable in principle and action from those it opposes, militarily or morally. Ya think?

[Bill_Thompson]

In Olympia, Washington, some peaceniks have tried to block the military sending supplies to Iraq.

Since even by the most liberal-biased media now, it is clear that the troop surge has contributed to more peace and stability, shouldn't it be legal now for the US military to simply run over peaceniks?

Then it would no longer be America, and would be indistinguishable in principle and action from those it opposes, militarily or morally. Ya think?

Actually, no.

There is a difference between free speech and impeeding the resuce and saving of our fellow man.

Let me give you an example of free speech. Today I just saw on the news that yesterday there was an event were local high schools deicded to skip school and protest the war by marching down the street. THey are upset that the war is costing so much and so little money goes towards education.

Ok, fine.

Whatever.

Maybe they have a point. Maybe they do not.

If they do not, they are free to make themselves look like flaming idiots as long as they do not block traffic or hurt anyone.

The goddamn dolts who are trying to stop the shipment of goods to help people in Iraq are fuck wads whom our species would be better off without. Amen.

[troubleagain]

The amazing thing to me about these protesters is the woman who brought her toddler along and put him in the path of the semis, too! How damned irresponsible and reprehensible is THAT? :x

[KLA2]

The goddamn dolts who are trying to stop the shipment of goods to help people in Iraq are fuck wads whom our species would be better off without. Amen.

Straw man, Bill. Yes. In the long run, under a democratically elected government and controlled military, this cannot be tolerated. Must be controlled by reasonable force. Reasonable?

[KLA2]

The amazing thing to me about these protesters is the woman who brought her toddler along and put him in the path of the semis, too! How damned irresponsible and reprehensible is THAT? :x

Fanatics. They ain't all Muslims. Not nearly. Yes, that is so wrong.

[Bill_Thompson]

The amazing thing to me about these protesters is the woman who brought her toddler along and put him in the path of the semis, too! How damned irresponsible and reprehensible is THAT? :x

Oooooo, gimmie gimmie gimmie. I wanna link, pleeeease!!

[Bill_Thompson]

The goddamn dolts who are trying to stop the shipment of goods to help people in Iraq are fuck wads whom our species would be better off without. Amen.

Straw man, Bill. Yes. In the long run, under a democratically elected government and controlled military, this cannot be tolerated. Must be controlled by reasonable force. Reasonable?

Absolutely straw man. Fight fire with fire. Fight logically fallacies with logical fallacies. It is one groups madness against another groups madness. Makes perfect sense. Two wrongs don't make a right. But then again, it is still human nature. If they can act crappy and put our lives at danger, we can clearly just brush them aside. And whatever it takes to do that, should be tolerated just as we are expected to tolerate them.

Two wrongs don't make a right, as I have said, but mowing them down is the lesser of two evils.

[Halcyon Dayz, FCD]

I think that that is fascist thinking.

Wikipedia:
"Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers individual and other societal interests subordinate to the interests of the state."

[Bill_Thompson]

I think that that is fascist thinking.

Wikipedia:
"Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers individual and other societal interests subordinate to the interests of the state."

I am not so sure about that. If firefighters are rushing out of their base to a burning apartment high-rise and there are people who -- solely because of limited knowledge and information -- decide to impeed the firefighters and prevent them from doing their jobs, would that be ok with you? If lives of innocent people are at stake, why would it be so bad for the figher fighters in their huge fire fighting engines to just run over the peaceniks who think that the fire has a right to exist.

Besides, you are ignoring the fact that I am not talking about peaceful protest. I am talking about the fact that these people are trying to stop others from doing their job.

[troubleagain]

The amazing thing to me about these protesters is the woman who brought her toddler along and put him in the path of the semis, too! How damned irresponsible and reprehensible is THAT? :x

Oooooo, gimmie gimmie gimmie. I wanna link, pleeeease!!

Sure! http://michellemalkin.com/2007/11/15/sedition-in-olympia-anti-war-mom-drops-baby-human-shield-as-anarchist-kiddie-shields-watch/

[Halcyon Dayz, FCD]

... why would it be so bad for the figher fighters in their huge fire fighting engines to just run over the peaceniks who think that the fire has a right to exist.

Besides, you are ignoring the fact that I am not talking about peaceful protest. I am talking about the fact that these people are trying to stop others from doing their job.

So it's OK to commit murder for the greater good?

[KLA2]

I think that that is fascist thinking.

Wikipedia:
"Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers individual and other societal interests subordinate to the interests of the state."

I am not so sure about that. If firefighters are rushing out of their base to a burning apartment high-rise and there are people who -- solely because of limited knowledge and information -- decide to impeed the firefighters and prevent them from doing their jobs, would that be ok with you? If lives of innocent people are at stake, why would it be so bad for the figher fighters in their huge fire fighting engines to just run over the peaceniks who think that the fire has a right to exist.

Besides, you are ignoring the fact that I am not talking about peaceful protest. I am talking about the fact that these people are trying to stop others from doing their job.

Like this, Bill?

As a fire raged out of control on Sunday at a landmark restaurant in northern New York State, two crews of Quebec firefighters rushing to assist their American friends were stopped for lengthy inspections at the U.S.-Canada border
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/new ... 0b&k=30352

It comes down to judgement, perspective, compromise, fairness. Not always, "the good guys and the bad guys". Not the absolute rule of dictatorial law. Or everyone loses.

[Bill_Thompson]

... why would it be so bad for the figher fighters in their huge fire fighting engines to just run over the peaceniks who think that the fire has a right to exist.

Besides, you are ignoring the fact that I am not talking about peaceful protest. I am talking about the fact that these people are trying to stop others from doing their job.

So it's OK to commit murder for the greater good?

Is killing someone, who shows intent to cause harm to you, murder?

People have been saved by the Amber Alert system by killing the kidnappers in shootouts by police and other authorities. Without the Amber Alert system the kidnappers would have killed their victims.

It comes down to who gets killed and who deserves to be killed. The women and children in Iraq don't deserve to be killed or die because some self-rightious, narrow-minded, ill-informed, delusional person just wants to join his friends in stopping a shipment out of the port in Olympia.

[Halcyon Dayz, FCD]

Is killing someone who shows intent to cause harm to you murder?

There is no such thing as "pre-emptive self-defence".
So, yes.

[Bill_Thompson]

Seeing these people -- for all practical purposes -- put their infants under tank treads is a bit out of my ball-park of comprehension. It is something I have to stop and digest a while before I can comment on, if I ever will.

But nothing shows their delusion more than this.

These people would not even know that there was a place called Iraq if they were not told so by television news.

Well, guess, what? I can tell you without any doubt that I have seen first-hand that the liberal biased news lies to people. They lie and get away with it all the time. This is simply because they are reporting on things that often are highly sensitive and secret. THey fill in the gaps with what they want to tell you and they get away with it because noone can call them on it. I saw this myself during the Peace Keeping Missions in Lebanon in the 80's.

Now, back to the subject at hand. Of course, to do this, you have to take the helpless babies and infants out of the picture. To do this, I think you need to first have social workers arrive on the scene and take their kids away.

Once you have adults there who refuse to leave, what you have left is basically no different than people in Iraq who plant roadside bombs. They are only using their bodies as obstacles instead of bombs. Ethically, it is no different than the people that the Apache Helicopters turned into hamburger in Iraq.

If they consider placing roadside bombs as being their version of "free speech". Answering it with Apaches should also be considered a "free speech" response.

YouTube took down the videos of the event so the links are no good.

But Al Jazeera wants to show them according to MM:

Subject: [OMJP] URGENT - Atten videographers
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:28:35 -0800
From: Sandy Mayes sandy@zhonka.net
Reply-To: olympiansforpeace@lists.riseup.net
To: omjp olympiansforpeace@lists.riseup.net, PMR olypmr@lists.riseup.net

Al Jazeera English wants footage of recent Olympia protests/ blockades. They would like “broadcast quality” if possible but say that if the footage is dramatic enough, “YouTube” quality might be OK. One of their producers just called and I told her I would send a list of videographer contact info along with links to footage. Please reply to this message
ASAP providing your contact info and indicating which footage is yours.

They want to cover it while the story is still current — they might even send someone to the march and rally tomorrow.

[Superluminal]

In Olympia, Washington, some peaceniks have tried to block the military sending supplies to Iraq.

Since even by the most liberal-biased media now, it is clear that the troop surge has contributed to more peace and stability, shouldn't it be legal now for the US military to simply run over peaceniks?

What I read was they were actually blocking epuipment that was being returned from Iraq. That makes even less sense. :?

[KLA2]

Bill, did you even notice my post, sandwiched between Halcyon Dayz and yours on the previous page? I think I made a valid point (in response to your comment re. firefighters rushing to put out a blaze). Here is a followup:

For the second time this month, United States border practices are being criticized after an ambulance from Windsor, carrying a heart patient en route to emergency surgery in Detroit, was stopped at U.S. customs by border guards.

On Nov. 11, volunteer firefighters from Quebec were held up at the U.S. border when they tried to help fight a fire in Upper New York State.

In the Windsor incident, Rick Laporte, 49, was heading to Detroit's Henry Ford Hospital for the emergency heart procedure last Monday when his ambulance was stopped at the secondary inspections office.

The ambulance driver was asked to check into the office and was there at least three minutes, according to a Windsor Regional Hospital nurse travelling with Laporte.

Laporte was being taken to Detroit because the angioplasty surgery he needed was not available at the Windsor hospital.

Windsor Regional Hospital CEO David Musyj said hospital staff gave the ambulance a "pre-clearance" by fax.

Laporte's girlfriend, Kat Lauzon, has been vocal about the border wait.

"I don't question her concern whatsoever," Musyj said.

The hospital is investigating the incident and Musyj said he is awaiting a call back from the U.S. Homeland Security Agency.

The Essex-Windsor Emergency Medical Services is also investigating and stresses that it has had a good relationship with U.S. Customs and the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel Corp.

The EMS unit said in a release that it believed it had an understanding clearance would be given to emergency vehicles at the U.S. border.

It predicts it will have had 150 such cross-border transfers by the end of this year.

Minister of Public Safety Stockwell Day expressed concern about the Windsor incident.

"Canada and the U.S. have a long-standing tradition of helping one another in times of emergency," he said in a statement. Laporte's family declined to comment. An uproar also followed news six volunteer firefighters from Lacolle, Que., were held up for several minutes at the U.S. border when called to help fight a fire at the Anchorage Inn, a historic hotel in Rouses Point, N.Y. By the time they arrived, the hotel had burned to the ground.
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/277487

To repeat my previous post:

"It comes down to judgement, perspective, compromise, fairness. Not always, "the good guys and the bad guys". Not the absolute rule of dictatorial law. Or everyone loses. "

[Enzo]

Don't make the mistake of assuming Bill is looking for a substantive dialog.

[Dragon Star]

I hate to be an ass...but is that baby slim-jim? What a Jerk-y.

[KLA2]

^ WHY does that kid keep whacking himself in the face with a stick??

Is there ANY substantiation as to where that picture came from? Or that it is in any way connected with BT's arguement? Or that it is not photoshopped?

just asking. 8)

[Blue Monster 65]

The thing about Free Speach (capitals intended) is that any idiot can do it, within reason. See this post, for example: I can't see any difference between the peaceniks who want to lay in the street and the people who think we should run over them.

They're all fucking lucky they were born in America.

And they should be goddamn glad they were.

Woof! - Scott

[Bill_Thompson]

The thing about Free Speach (capitals intended) is that any idiot can do it, within reason. See this post, for example: I can't see any difference between the peaceniks who want to lay in the street and the people who think we should run over them.

The difference is that the people who want to run over them are not killing anyone who is innocent.

[Bill_Thompson]

In Olympia, Washington, some peaceniks have tried to block the military sending supplies to Iraq.

Since even by the most liberal-biased media now, it is clear that the troop surge has contributed to more peace and stability, shouldn't it be legal now for the US military to simply run over peaceniks?

What I read was they were actually blocking epuipment that was being returned from Iraq. That makes even less sense. :?

That can't be right.

If it is then suddenly this is a huge goofy joke.

I wonder if they even know what direction the supplies are going.