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Lonewulf
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 Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Mactep wrote: | | I think if I were active at apollohoax and it had an ignore list, I would use it on Jason. But I find some of his critics there vastly worse than he is. (RAF and that guy from the Minnesota hospital, I'm looking at you!) |
I can be like RAF at times, I admit. |
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Blue Monster 65
Illuminatus
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Joined: 29 Jul 2007
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Location: Down In the Lab ...
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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There's never been any proof; there never will be any proof: there's just the desparate desire of those who wish to submit to fairy tales as life is too difficult for those people without said beliefs.
Give this guy time and I'm sure he'll bring up Ray Comfort's banana video as a shining example of "proof." Sigh ... |
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Lonewulf
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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I doubt it. He sticks with Mormon sources almost exclusively. If the LDS authorities don't say or admit it, it didn't happen. Unless they DID say it and it suggests the Church is bad. And unless scientists show that gays are only gay by choice, then it's okay (but those are quoted by LDS authorities, so...)
(So the bit about Mormonism discriminating against blacks until the '70s? Never happened)
I think that he'll stick, when talking about proof of God, to his "God told me" bit. It's fundamentally unprovable and untouchable. Which is fair enough... that's why I'm basically trying to shift the discussion currently on things he's claiming that he has evidence for. |
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Enzo
Enlightened One
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Joined: 23 Feb 2006
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Location: Lansing, Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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Feign interest, ask to be shown. |
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Lonewulf
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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I think it's too late for me to feign interest at this point. I'm a bit too blunt for subtle tricks. ![[Smile]](images/smiles/icon_smile.gif "Smile")
He asked me what evidence I would accept when I asked what evidence he had. This seems to be a rather dishonest trick.
If I state that I require empirical evidence and studies, he'll argue that I don't require empirical evidence for EVERYTHING, like love and emotions and stuff. Ergo, the suggestion is that I require an unreasonable amount of evidence for existence of the soul.
Besides that, I don't have any idea what evidence he has, so I can't really pick and choose what's convincing beforehand, now can I? |
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Blue Monster 65
Illuminatus
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Joined: 29 Jul 2007
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Location: Down In the Lab ...
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| Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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How 'bout evidence that can be tested via either scientific means to be determined by said evidence or through third parties?
You also should ask him if the Book of Mormon as a plagiarized sci-fi novel. That oughta elicit some response from him. Hahahahahahaha! |
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Lonewulf
Puppet Master
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| Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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I'm actually kind of scared to go back to the apollohoax forum now. If I do, I'll see that he made a new post, and I'll just HAVE to click on it.
I'm at the point where I cannot deal with distractions while dealing with some difficult things, like an essay that was due weeks ago, and school starting now.
Aaaargh. |
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Blue Monster 65
Illuminatus
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| Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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Time to turn the net off again! It is addicting, isn't it? But it also can be a huge waste of one's time. |
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Mactep
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Joined: 02 Aug 2005
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Location: Far from Damascus
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Lonewulf wrote: | | Mactep wrote: | | I think if I were active at apollohoax and it had an ignore list, I would use it on Jason. But I find some of his critics there vastly worse than he is. (RAF and that guy from the Minnesota hospital, I'm looking at you!) |
I can be like RAF at times, I admit. |
Well, if you are trying to address the substance of his arguments, that puts your post way ahead of a lot of the criticisms he gets there, which often takes the form:
Jason: <calmly states his position, which may or may not be supported by a well-reasoned argument, and which others may or may not agree with>
Critic: Oh yeah? Well I'm sick of you narrow-minded intolerant religious bigots who are reactionary hypocrites and <insult> <insult> <insult> <insult>
The long list of insults certainly being something that applies to some religious people, but also to some non-religious people, perhaps at least as often. There is another person over there, who is usually quite polite, but seems to take the view that any argument borne of religious faith is flawed, therefore any argument not borne of religious faith is sound. If my time on science boards has taught me anything, it's that people who chant "Science! Science! Science!" the whole day long are just as capable of cooking up illogical, flawed arguments as anyone else.
In general, I think religious people tend to get a bad rap. Most of the ones I come across at least, seem pretty reasonable, and are hardly the fire-breathing foaming-at-the-mouth stereotype that some like RAF seem to assume they are. People often also cite "bad" things (let's leave aside the subjectivity necessarily involved in deciding what is "good" and "bad") like wars, persecution, etc., as evidence of the "badness" of religion. It is claimed at least (I haven't got evidence - anyone else, one way or the other?) that approximately one fourth of the world's AIDS sufferers are in the direct care of the Catholic Church. Maybe you don't subscribe to their beliefs (I don't), but I don't particularly like the idea that if you hold some set of religious beliefs, you are automatically a bad person. What do some of the critics do that's so f***ing great?
So I guess I would try to keep it at the level of debating facts and the soundness of his arguments, rather than the this-person-is-the-good-guy and this-person-is-the-bad-guy that often seems to go on there. And yes, I know it's hard, which is one of the reasons I'm not there anymore. So I guess I have already adopted your tactic of just staying away, knowing that if I go there, I will see something that will get my blood pressure up ![[Sad]](images/smiles/icon_sad.gif "Sad")
For a board called "ApolloHoax", there aren't very many posts about Apollo |
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Lonewulf
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Joined: 10 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Mactep wrote: |
Well, if you are trying to address the substance of his arguments, that puts your post way ahead of a lot of the criticisms he gets there, which often takes the form:
Jason: <calmly states his position, which may or may not be supported by a well-reasoned argument, and which others may or may not agree with>
Critic: Oh yeah? Well I'm sick of you narrow-minded intolerant religious bigots who are reactionary hypocrites and <insult> <insult> <insult> <insult> |
Sure, I could make rants at religious people in general, but what does that accomplish? I mean, I respect Jay Utah and Gillian, after all.
However, I have no patience for people that seek to impose their religion on me, whether through the law or trying to convert me. If you defend your religion as being a matter of "faith", that cannot be proven, then how can you insist that other people should follow that "faith"?
And Jason has made his position very clear on cases like homosexuality.
| Mactep wrote: | | In general, I think religious people tend to get a bad rap. Most of the ones I come across at least, seem pretty reasonable, and are hardly the fire-breathing foaming-at-the-mouth stereotype that some like RAF seem to assume they are. People often also cite "bad" things (let's leave aside the subjectivity necessarily involved in deciding what is "good" and "bad") like wars, persecution, etc., as evidence of the "badness" of religion. |
Part of that is a direct reaction to the claim that, if you're an atheist, you are not capable of morality.
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So I guess I would try to keep it at the level of debating facts and the soundness of his arguments, rather than the this-person-is-the-good-guy and this-person-is-the-bad-guy that often seems to go on there. And yes, I know it's hard, which is one of the reasons I'm not there anymore. So I guess I have already adopted your tactic of just staying away, knowing that if I go there, I will see something that will get my blood pressure up [Sad] |
I'm only staying away until I have time to argue. ![[Razz]](images/smiles/icon_razz.gif "Razz")
| Quote: | | For a board called "ApolloHoax", there aren't very many posts about Apollo |
You really don't want me to go into how many posts aren't about the Illuminati here, do you? |
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